NLE for idiots

[capul8]

OK, I'm giving in. But you've gotta remember, I edited my Dad's home movies in the sixties with scotch tape.
The sound thing is killing me, and the last thing I want to do is start a dreaded 132 post sound thread again.
But if I were to start exploring Non Linear Editing, what are your recommendations?
Take a class, buy a book, hire an editor?
Final Cut Pro vs Premiere? Avid fans?
Talk me out of this and send me back to my cement bottle?

[N. Foster Tyler]

I was just about to post a new topic regarding my disillusionment with non-linear digital editing systems like Avid and Final Cut Pro, etc!

After cutting my first film (shot on Super-8 film) on an Avid, I never want to do it again. I found my experience with 'cutting-edge technology' completely indulgent; to quick & too easy. Plus, since I was paying good money by the hour to edit on the damn thing, I felt totally rushed. I'm happy with my film, but it could have been a lot closer to my initial intentions had I just had the time to THINK! Seriously...

I'm buying a tape splicer, a viewer and a projector to edit in my room where I can take all the time in the world to cut my next film for free. Then, after the final cut is finished on film, I'll transfer to video and use the Avid just for music and sound editing.

I say stick with what you have been doing all along (and use the new technology just for finishing stuff, sound, etc) and save yourself the trouble. Sometimes its better to do things the old-school way...

[Alex]

Although it will cost more initially, why not transfer ALL of your footage while it is fresh and unmarred from scratches and dust.

That might be a great compromise to working with an Avid editor and feeling rushed...and you may pay less to transfer all of your footage first...and then edit the film yourself either on Final Cut Pro OR by cutting up your film....rather than going to an Avid for editing.

The idea behind Final Cut Pro is you own the system, so you can even create more than one version to mull over (so much for saving time!)

D-Vision made an excellent NLE system (non-linear editing), but they have been bought out and now you can only get them used and buyer beware.

-Alex

[rollemfilm]

I would hire an editor. Make sure you have good work tapes with time code to make your EDL with. You want sound and picture tapes. I would never think that editing super8 "film" would ever get the kind of results that digital editing can do. If you're seriously thinking this way, shoot 16mm and checkerboard edit. That for me wold be the ultimate way to edit. Oh no, what have I said?! If you had the same lab services you have with super8 as you do with 16 & 35mm, I'd say cut away. Or if you had access to an optical printer, I'd say sure. Super8 is really a digital format now. One of the best. I used an Avid, and although it was very frustrating at times to the point were I was ready to quit, I would and will do it again.

[filmsmyth]

Hi... I've been shooting Super8 for 20 years... I started out editing single system sound with a friggin Goko editor/viewer.

After a few years and a few thousand dollars later, I upgraded to double system sound... using a Super8 4 gang sync block, viewer, editor, etc...

That was great until I could no longer find magstock...

At that point, I put my Super8 editing stuff away for a couple of years except for the occasional shooting of sound film for some shorts and a never finished feature...

About 5 years ago I was getting excited that I could possibly shoot Super8 --Rank to video --edit in my PC. Well it sucked. It was a great idea at the time but the technology was definitely up to the task.

About 2 months ago, I went ahead and bid on a G4 Mac with 150 gigs of hard drive that already had Final Cut Pro... $1600.00 final winning bid. Yes I was scared that I would be receiving some piece of crap that had been used as a doorstop because even though I can afford $1600 --it's still a lot of money to me. 5 days later it came to my house in its original packing... I slowly opened the box... gently plugged everything in and connected the keyboard, monitor, and mouse.

I turned it on...

Whoa... I'm in love. I have already done tests with Super8 Sound's negative film transferred on a rank to video. Captured through my Canon GL1. Sound recording done on a cheap portable DAT. Unbelievable. Having been totally a Windows user, I was skeptical about the Mac, but I have simply read way too many good things about Mac G4's and Final Cut Pro... well it's all true.

I have not yet done any tests, but I understand that if I wanted or cared to, I can output the edited video (from the film original) and get this transferred back to film for festivals. I have talked with someone who actually has done this and they tell me that the result will blow you away.

But with a lot of the better festivals accepting dv for projection now, this would be a moot point... if your film is good enough, a distributor just might pick it up for distribution and pay for the film transfer... odds might be low for this happening, but at least it puts Super8 back on the playing field as a way to break in.

Having said that... I find that the Super8 Sound negative film transferred on the Rank to video looks outstanding... I mean I really have a hard time telling what format it originates on... Of course if you're looking for the special qualities of Super8 reversal... you can go that way as well.

But back to the Mac...

I never used a Mac before the day I received mine from the eBay seller. I immediately connected my GL1 and easily captured some footage... ready for editing.

The Mac OS is very intuitive and easy to use and if you're a Windows user, the basics are similar...

I had been figuring on purchasing a power Windows based system and getting a Canopus DV REX card until I found out that a Mac G4 can do the same thing right out of the box without building a system.

Getting the sound in sync with the picture is a snap but maybe a bit time consuming... but then I remembered the old days... which are very fond memories, but let's face it... pretty much gone.

I've read quite a few posts here and I know most of us operate on a miniscule budget to say the least... but I really like the idea of keeping my Mac strictly for editing... Running Windows for everything else I do is nice... Since I'm not super Mac savvy (yet) I have no intentions of purchasing tons of other Mac software unless of course it has something to do with filmmaking and integrates with my new editing system.

Just my two cents.... sorry, more like fifty.

[pcg]

Filmsymth is describing my current system to a T: G4 Mac, FCP, Nizo Super8 to generate the film, Rank transfer...

All wonderful, intuitive & a joy to edit with. Sync'ing sound is a breeze (as I've repeated here any number of times). All the mechanical woes of using 70's technilogy have vanished. FCP 2.0 is even better. What more could we want?

If you're still using the old hand tools, look around. The old Avid system sucks. FCP on Mac is a blessing. What a creative tool! And creative tools free us to express creative ideas, right? All at home; no rentals or time pressures. Check it out.

/Pat

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by filmsmyth:
Hi... I've been shooting Super8 for 20 years... I started out editing single system sound with a friggin Goko editor/viewer.

Having said that... I find that the Super8 Sound negative film transferred on the Rank to video looks outstanding... I mean I really have a hard time telling what format it originates on... Of course if you're looking for the special qualities of Super8 reversal... you can go that way as well.

fifty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't mean to go to much off topic, tell us who's transferring your stuff.

-Alex

[Nigel]

I agree with Rollem. I would hire and editor. That is what I do--My editor cuts my film on AVID MCXpress. I pay him with beer and some cash. But, he just works on my film at his office between projects so it is not to fast. Final Cut Pro is nice if you want to buy something--I have it on my Mac but I use it to only update my reel. I am not an editor so I can't say what its downfalls are.

[capul8]

Thanks, everyone...gives me a lot to chew on...

Welcome, filmsmyth, good contribution.

BTW: Nigel, how much beer should I give my editor; and should it be before or after the editing?

(During?)

[#Pedro]

You CAN do double system sound today. There are the most modern appliances around, factory new. A synchronizer with a 32 bit processor. A mixer module which starts the sound source at the programmed frame. A 4 or 8 chanel reel-to-reel tape machine to mix the sound using conventional controls, watching the film at the same time on a S8 viewer which follows automatically your tape, keeping in sync with the sound even during rewinding or forwarding the tape. And so on. You need NO fullcoat, you use perforated tape which is relatively cheap, easy to find and can be reused many times. The result can be an Audio CD or cassette tape or striped film. The Audio CD-Player is controled by the frame contact of the projector to play the soundtrack in sync.

The greatest advantage is, that you keep inside the medium "film", having something to show on your big screen in great quality, not reduced to NTSC or PAL.

The other advantage is, that the linear technology is really developed and will keep constant and compatible for a long period of time. Any video or computer system will change in a couple of years, often without considering any compatibility, and we always spend all the money again and again, wasting time, effort and money.

Pedro